For the Mormon, God the Father “was once a man like us.” And he “dwelt on a earth.” By keeping the ordinances and laws of the Mormon gospel, he “became a God.” Further, “We can become Gods like our heavenly Father” (Gospel, pp. 289-293).

In addition, Joseph Fielding Smith (tenth president) declared, “The Prophet (i.e.. Joseph Smith) taught that our Father had a Father and so on” (Smith, p. 12).

So according to Mormonism, through eternity past, gods have been creating planets. They populate them through sexual intercourse with their goddess wives; then some of their “spirit children” become gods themselves. And throughout eternity future, the same process will continue “worlds without end” (Brigham Young, second president; quoted in Ludlow, pp. 72-77).

First, the original “what if Mormons are right” post wasn’t written by me, nor actually by another Mormon, but by someone else saying giving essentially the same council that Rabbi Gamaliel gave Saul, and others, in encouraging them to not persecute the saints, for if their work is the work of men, it will come to nothing, but if it is the work of God, then you’ll be found fighting against it. Turns out, contrary to what Paul thought (who was much like you, thinking, testifying, and convinced that the saints were ENTIRELY false), that he was wrong. Fortunately for him, he was made aware of his error for the Lord had a profound mission in store for him.

But, more to your comment… we didn’t write our own book (to find out what really happend with the Book of Mormon, click here.

Also, we don’t call everything else a lie. We believe the whole of the Bible, we just believe that many misinterpret it.

Pondering Pastor

Justification by faith was the great truth that dawned on Luther and dramatically altered the church. Because Christians are justified by faith alone, their standing before God is not in any way related to personal merit. Good works and practical holiness do not provide the grounds for acceptance with God. God receives as righteous those who believe, not because of any good thing He sees in them–not even because of His own sanctifying work in their lives–but solely on the basis of Christ’s righteousness, which is reckoned to their account. “To the one who does not work, but believes in Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is reckoned as righteousness” (Romans 4:5). That is justification.

Declared Righteous: What Actually Changes?

In its theological sense, justification is a forensic, or purely legal, term. It describes what God declares about the believer, not what He does to change the believer. In fact, justification effects no actual change whatsoever in the sinner’s nature or character. Justification is a divine judicial edict. It changes our status only, but it carries ramifications that guarantee other changes will follow. Forensic decrees like this are fairly common in everyday life.

When I was married, for example, my wife and I stood before the minister and recited our vows. Near the end of the ceremony, the minister declared, “By the authority vested in me by the state of Illinois, I pronounce you man and wife.” Instantly we were legally husband and wife. Whereas seconds before we had been an engaged couple, now we were married. Nothing inside us actually changed when those words were spoken. But our status changed before God, the law, and our family and friends. The implications of that simple declaration have been lifelong and life-changing. But when the minister spoke those words, it was a legal declaration only.

Similarly, when a jury foreman reads the verdict, the defendant is no longer “the accused.” Legally and officially he instantly becomes either guilty or innocent–depending on the verdict. Nothing in his actual nature changes, but if he is found not guilty he will walk out of court a free person in the eyes of the law, fully justified.

In biblical terms, justification is a divine verdict of “not guilty–fully righteous.” It is the reversal of God’s attitude toward the sinner. Whereas He formerly condemned, He now vindicates. Although the sinner once lived under God’s wrath, as a believer he or she is now under God’s blessing.

Justification is more than simple pardon; pardon alone would still leave the sinner without merit before God. So when God justifies He imputes divine righteousness to the sinner (Romans 4:22-25). Christ’s own infinite merit thus becomes the ground on which the believer stands before God (Romans 5:19; 1 Corinthians 1:30; Philippians 3:9). So justification elevates the believer to a realm of full acceptance and divine privilege in Jesus Christ.

Therefore, because of justification, believers not only are perfectly free from any charge of guilt (Romans 8:33) but also have the full merit of Christ reckoned to their personal account (Romans 5:17). Here are the forensic realities that flow out of justification:

* We are adopted as sons and daughters (Romans 8:15)
* We become fellow-heirs with Christ (v. 17)
* We are united with Christ so that we become one with Him (1 Corinthians 6:17)
* We are henceforth “in Christ” (Galatians 3:27) and He in us (Colossians 1:27)

How Justification and Sanctification Differ

Justification is distinct from sanctification because in justification God does not make the sinner righteous; He declares that person righteous (Romans 3:28; Galatians 2:16). Notice how justification and sanctification are distinct from one another:

* Justification imputes Christ’s righteousness to the sinner’s account (Romans 4:11b); sanctification imparts righteousness to the sinner personally and practically (Romans 6:1-7; 8:11-14).
* Justification takes place outside sinners and changes their standing (Romans 5:1-2, sanctification is internal and changes the believer’s state (Romans 6:19).
* Justification is an event, sanctification a process.

Those two must be distinguished but can never be separated. God does not justify whom He does not sanctify, and He does not sanctify whom He does not justify. Both are essential elements of salvation.

So why do Mormons concentrate so hard on obedience? Salvation should be enough to make our obedience be a natural consequence of our conversion, right? But after conversion the fervor, passion, determination, and excitement fade, and we go back to being naturally evil. By teaching obedience, we encourage righteous living so the members can feel of God’s love more purely. By doing so we rekindle the fire within to motivate us to be obedient for another season.

Do all Christian sects believe the way Ringer explained? It seems from the above discussion that there are some that feel like all that is needed is to profess once in a lifetime that Jesus is the Christ, and then no matter what sin or heinous crime the person commits, he is saved automatically. If so I would counter the way Ringer explained. This man was not truly professing his faith, and so hasn’t been saved after all. Works are the fruit of faith.

Again, I will say it as clearly as I can so you at least understand Mormon doctrine:
I do not believe that works alone will earn me a mansion in heaven. I cannot be saved except through the sacrifice of the Only Begotten. I exercise faith in Jesus Chirst–faith that He lived a perfect life, faith that His atonement provides a way back to the Father, faith that His sacrifice met the demands of justice layed out by the Father, faith that through repentance Christ can wash away my sins and make me clean again, faith that if I do what Christ wants me to do, He will make up the difference and intercede to the Father on my behalf.

Yes, I used the word “DO” (works, right?). It is merely to show Christ that I have faith in Him. It does not, as Rusty put it, “pick the lock of salvation.”

Philippians 2:12
“Wherefore, my beloved, as you have always obeyed, not as in my presence only but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling.”

Now you must think that this tells us that we have to work our own salvation out. In other words, we are a part of saving ourselves. And some have been distressed by what that verse says, work out your own salvation when we have just read Ephesians 2 which says salvation is not of…what?…works. Is this a contradiction? Is he saying in one place it’s not of works, and somewhere else work it out? What is this troublesome verse really saying?

Go back in Philippians and kind of get a running start. Go back to chapter 1 verse 27. He says this, “Only…and this is a single most important exhortation…let your conduct be fitting to the gospel of Christ.” You see what he’s saying there? If you claim to have been redeemed by the gospel, then your conduct ought to show it. “Let your conduct,” he says to the Philippians, “be as it is fitting to the gospel of Christ that whether I am present, whether I come and see you, or whether I’m absent, I may hear of your affairs, or if you will, your lifestyle that you stand fast in one spirit with one mind, striving together for the faith of the gospel,” and so forth.

In other words, he says…Look, if you’re truly saved, then let your conduct show it whether I’m there or not. In other words, let it be so genuine and so true that it doesn’t need to be policed by my presence. Let it be that if I’m there or if I’m not there you still have a conduct fitting to the gospel.

Notice verse 5 of chapter 2. Paul says, “Let this mind be in you which was also in Christ Jesus.” Be like Christ. Think like Christ. Have the attitude of humility that Christ had. And then he describes it, doesn’t he, in verses 6 to 11. It was an attitude of humility. “He didn’t think it something to hold onto…in verse 6…to be like God, but He made Himself of no reputation, took upon Him the form of a servant, was made in the likeness of men, was found in fashion as a man, humbled Himself and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross.” He humiliated Himself, humbled Himself for us. And verse 9 says, “Wherefore God is highly exalted Him, given Him a name above every name that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow in heaven, in earth and under the earth and every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord to the glory of God the Father.”

So he says let the mind be in you that was in Christ. It was a mind of humiliation. It was a mind of submission. Let that mind be in you.

Now you come to verse 12 and he says, “Wherefore, or so then, my beloved, as you have always obeyed not as in my presence only but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling.” Now in the context I think it’s very clear what he means by that. Listen now, since you belong to Christ through the gospel, as chapter 1 verse 27 said, since you belong to Christ through the gospel… Secondly, since Christ has in His humble obedience to God given you the example of how you ought to live in humble obedience to God. Since Christ has shown you the reward of that obedience, verses 9 to 11. Christ is obedient in verses 5 through 8, 6 through 8, and He’s rewarded in verses 9 through 11, right? He humbled Himself and God…what?…exalted Him. Since you belong to Christ, since He is your example, since you see what happens to one who obeys, wherefore, my beloved, as you have always obeyed, keep on obeying, implied, whether I’m there or not. They had been obedient in Philippi. But no doubt their obedience was an obedience that was leaning heavily on Paul. When he was present, he set the pace. When he was present, he taught, he exhorted, he challenged, he helped, he confronted, he answered their questions, he solved their problems, he unscrambled their dilemmas. But what he is saying to them and the same thing in chapter 1 verse 27 is, “Now that I’m not there don’t be less obedient, you’ve always obeyed in my presence, now keep obeying in my absence just the same so that it isn’t a question of me policing you. Let it come from within, and let it be…and here comes one of the most important things at the end of verse 12…with fear and trembling.”

In other words, because it is such a serious thing to obey, do it with fear and trembling, not fear of me, or trembling of me, but of God, reverently, whole-heartedly, humbly, meekly you obey. And he says, “Continue…here it comes…to work out your own salvation.” Now what does he mean? It simply means by great effort, by constant desire to be pleasing to God, by constant dedication to the Spirit of God and obedience to the Word of God, you work out what is already…where?…in.

In other words, all he is saying is the salvation that’s in you ought to be visible outside. This is the Christian life, to live on the outside what is already on the inside. And it is a word of great encouragement in verse 13 when he says, “For it is God who works in you both to will and do of His good pleasure.” God is working on the inside to do His will, and to fulfill His good pleasure and let it happen on the outside. And so we are then to live on the outside what we are on the inside. It’s another way of saying what we saw in 2 Corinthians 7:1 and Ephesians chapter 2 verses 4 to 10, since God has done all of this, since you’ve seen the example of Jesus Christ, the One who obeys is exalted, as you have obeyed in my absence…in my presence, keep on obeying in my absence and do it with fear and trembling because you regard the holiness of God and work on the outside what is on the inside. And that’s to be the standard of Christian living. We’re to live on the outside what we have on the inside so that the people who don’t have it will desire it, right? And God will be glorified.

Now what does it mean? You say, “All right, I’m willing to cleanse myself and live the way I ought to live, I want to work on the outside the salvation that’s on the inside.