Sing I a song of eons gone,
of life from mystery sprung,
ere sun or moon or rolling stars,
their radiance earthward flung.
Ere spirit winged intelligence
forsook those shinging spheres,
exceeding glory there to gain
through mortal toil and tears.

A song they learn whose lives eterne
Transend yon twinkling night
Pale Oleas silver beam outsoar Shineha’s golden flight
passing the angel sentries by
mounting oer stars and suns
to where the orbs that govern burn
royal and regnant ones

Declare oh muse of mightier wings
of loftier lore than mine
Why God is God and man may be
both human and devine
Why sons of God mid sons of men
unrecognized may dwell
so masked in dense mortality
that none their truth can tell

Obviously you’re one who rejects the latter-day prophet, but now you see why those of us who follow him, place such importance upon his role/words. For those words are scripture, no different when spoken by the prophet today then by a prophet 2,000 years ago.

Hopefully that view can help people understand the crucial importance Latter-day Saints subscribe to their prophet and the apostles.

Why is it then that only Noah’s family followed him … and the history of prophesy is full of people not following the prophet. Elijah comes to mind. No, the history of people following prophets is not good. Often they are not recognized or valued in their lifetimes.

Pondering Pastor

Where did you read that Mormons have the assumption that revelation comes only to the living prophets of the Mormon Church? You must have misread my comments above, because not only do we NOT assume revelation comes only to Gods prophets, but we believe strongly (as I mentioned) that his divine guidance is present in each of our lives, and in the “body of Christ” as a whole. It plays a crucial role to the individuals and as a sum-effect on humanity and the organization of Christ.

To understand the role of each, you could look at a business organization as an example. Each individual exercises their own judgment and “inspiration” within the capacity of the roles in which they play. A worker uses applies that inspiration to his own work, and the things over which he has direct responsibility and authority. A manager, the same – but his authority is more extensive and includes others. A prophet – like the CEO, is able to receive divine guidance and revelation that applies to the whole of the church, even the whole earth, for his accountability and responsibility is over all mankind.

To this point, the minimalization to which you refer was more perceived than implied. I would totally agree that sometimes it may be a subtler inspiration, and other times a full-fledged 2×4 experience, direct revelation from God.

Finally, all silliness aside (and sorry to dissapoint you), but the ability to receive revelation is does not make you a prophet, for all have the ability to receive such (as you suggest).

“…inspiration is often found within the subtle spiritual promptings given to scholars and scientists alike as they seek to uncover “the truth”, and the role of personal revelation is for individual guidance only, but the revelation given to the prophet of God is what trumps all such scholarly wisdom. It’s the difference between personal revelation and prophetic guidance.”

I’d argue that it is not just inspiration but also revelation, and it’s not always subtle (ask some members of the church I serve about their 2 X 4 experiences … revelations as subtle as getting hit upside the head by a 2 X 4), and personal revelation for individual guidance only … baloney! I rely on this guidance … direct guidance from God … in the regular work and leading of the congregation God has called me to serve. I suppose in the definition that Mormons use, that makes me a prophet.

Pondering Pastor

Do you mean Noah rather than Moses here? The only people who believed Noah were his family. If you mean Moses, I’m not sure which flood you are talking about.

I understand about “revelation” and the Mormon focus on living prophets. I simply underestimated its importance. Likewise, I think you minimize and underestimate the importance of the ongoing work of the Holy Spirit in the Body of Christ.

I reject the Mormon assumption that God’s revelations come only to the living prophets of the Mormon church.

Pondering Pastor

PP,

No worries. I think it’s common for people to underestimate the importance of revelation. Let me present it to you this way, looking logically at the concept of revelation – or direct communication from God.

Realistically, if I were to stand before the Lord, face to face, and hear him speak, would I even think for one instance that perhaps what he’s telling me is wrong because it contradicts what I “thought” he said two thousand years ago?

Not a chance. If there were something contradictory, I’d humbly assume I either misunderstood in the first place (for clearly, there is much debate on scriptural interpretation, even amongst what you agree are “Christians”, somebody if not most, are going to be wrong), or I’d assume that the time for that was past, and we’re in a new time now. Who am I to counsel the Lord?

By the same token, if you have a testimony of the prophet, and truly believe that he is in direct communication with the Lord (just as in biblical times), would his direct instruction/counsel today not trump all else? Even if it flew in the face of conventional wisdom?

When Moses prophesied of the flood, the true believers knew and accepted his words because they knew and accepted him as a prophet.

Revelation is all-important, it’s the crux of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day saints, it’s “upon this rock” that he built his church.

What’s more, one of the foundational principles in the bible is that he gives us line upon line, precept upon precept, here a little and there a little. The very notion of that doctrine is based on the foundation that we don’t have it all. Which means there is still more to come. It means there will still be new things that we learn, and that slowly, over time, those who have the faith to follow and accept without the mentally crippling demand for proof, will begin to understand even things that are NOT in the bible.

In truth, revelation is the heart of the matter. For if there is revelation, then the cannon is not closed, for God’s mouth is not shut, and all his words must be accepted, past, present, and future.

“Revelation DOES trump scholarly research because revelation comes from Heavenly Father or Jesus Christ, and scholarly research comes from men.”

Pondering Pastor writes:
Revelation is often contained in scholarly research guided by the Holy Spirit through men and women. To claim that individual revelation is somehow more important is a place we differ significantly.

Pondering Pastor