Rusty

Virtually all of McDermott’s concerns and critique are clearly non-Biblical. For an analysis of this problem, see http://sites.google.com/site/mcdermottandthebible/.

A question that is much more significant than “Are Latter-day Saints traditional orthodox sectarian Christians?” is “Are traditional orthodox sectarian beliefs about God, Christ and man Biblical?”

I welcome your story as often as you’re willing to post it, not everyone reading a thread, has read all the other threads, so thanks for sharing it again.

Bob,

I continue to be grateful for your comments. When I’m busy, as I have been today, I keep thinking “Bob’s got it”, LOL. I’ll try to restrict my dependence Seriously, thanks.

Mitch,

Okay, so that was a good one! I have to admit, I laughed at your using my words against me. But I really was being sincere (even if you mock me .
A couple of things about your comment…

The comment about the dictionary deserves its own post, for as trite as it seems, there is powerful and important substance there.

About your accusation of Bob being angry with anti-Mormons, I should also comment. First, I didn’t read his comment as hostile, as he clarified.

But interestingly, as I study the life of the Savior, what I find is not a pattern of him seeking opportunities to refute other religions, of being “Anti” anything. Instead, he demonstrated a life of building, creating, of going around teaching the gospel. The times when he DID become more hostile or accusatory are when others sought him out to refute him, or to persecute him. I guess the question you’ll need to ask yourself, is “why are you here”. You can be “non”, without being “anti”. I’m “not” protestant, but I’m also not “anti-protestant”. The two are mutually exclusive.

I welcome intelligent questions from NON-Mormons, but have little to no tolerance of “Anti” Mormons. Being “anti” is not an attribute of Christ, who was a builder. Being “anti” is about destruction, an attribute of Satan.

Pondering Pastor is a great example of this. He never hesitates to rebuke me, or refute me, or disagree with me, but it’s always under a banner of being constructive. I don’t read his comments (even when they’re against me) as being “anti”, or contradictory to the character of Christ, and we’ve had many profound and valuable conversations because of this.

So, please, if you intend to be anti, don’t. Otherwise, I look forward to your insights and views on matters we discuss, even when they disagree with my own.

As I’ve stated before, mine is not the intent to own, or “win” every conversation, but to make sure that every conversation results in the clarification of the many points of view available, so that each reading (now and in the future), may discern for themselves, by the power of the spirit.

I hope you’ll stay to join in the conversations, and have a voice on the record.

In my youth, I was an American Baptist, raised in the northeast. As with many, College was a time of searching for me. I knew that Heavenly Father and Jesus Christ existed, but it was all the many doctrines of different churches I had a problem with. None seemed any better that the others, until I met the LDS Missionaries. They taught me doctrine that is different in many aspects from other churches. Even though I had never heard these things before in this life, it was very familiar to me. They answered questions I didn’t know I had. It all rang true to me.

When the time came that I had to decide what to do, in spite of opposition from family and friends, I knelt down and poured out my heart to the Lord. The answer didn’t come easily, but it came. I was baptized at age 21 (I’m 63 now). Never, at any moment, have I had any regrets.

I don’t know any Latter-Day Saints who aspire to be gods. Most uf us don’t have a clue what we need to know or do as a god. At this point we are ill prepared and don’t know enough about it to really want it. We do, however, love our Savior and our Heavenly Father, and want to spend eternity with them and our families.

I will be eternally grateful for the opportunity I’ve had to learn of the fullness of the Gospel. I know that the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints is the only Church that has the Gospel in it’s fullness. I am grateful for all of the Prophets, both ancient and modern, who have faithfully served the Lord so that we can have this knowledge today.

I invite all to investigate the LDS Church by going to http://www.Mormon.org and contacting the missionaries. You’ll never regret it!

As for my “self-love of wanting to be your own god” seems a little like an attack. I renew my comments regarding such statements I listed in my previous post. People such as yourself offer such comments to shock those who have little or no understanding of actual LDS doctrine to convince them that Latter-day Saints have a radical and blasphemous view of Christ.

People convert to Mormonism not because of narcissism, rather because of a witness from God of its truthfulness. We love believe in and worship the God of the Bible and base our beliefs on the teachings of the words therein. In fact, the doctrine of exaltation comes from the New Testament. But we can debate Biblical interpretation until we are blue in the face. The fact is people can read the Bible and interpret it in many different ways. Our belief is that God calls prophets to instruct His believers through revelation and not on the many interpretations and philosophies of man. (See Amos 3:7).

You can call me names and persecute me all you want. My love of Christ and my relationship with him will carry me through such persecution. I only wanted to point out the fact that many “Christians” will not allow LDS Church members to be called Christians is a matter of biased opinion. BTW I have no trouble labeling J.W. members as Christians. They worship Christ according to the light and knowledge they have. Who am I to judge their sincerity to the Savior of mankind?

I’m wondering what experiences you may have suffered in earlier years that have made you so hostile and angry towards anti-Mormons. Perhaps you should share it here with us on this forum for maybe we can help.

But to follow your other claim. I just came from the Jehovah’s Witnesses website. They also would like to be grafted in. They even get the “Our faith bears His name” claim. And heck the Moonies get the Christian label too. They teach against homosexuality , do good, and talk about Jesus as Savior too.

And, as I read on another post recently, maybe we all need to throw away our Bibles and purchase a Webster dictionary. Nothing like a good love story before you go to bed. PP knows what I mean.

Truth is Bob, and you refuse to believe it, because you deemed the nature of God of little value, that the differences between Mormonism and Christianity are as far as the east is from the west. If being a Christian is so important to you, which I still don’t think it is as important to you shown through your self love of wanting to be your own god, then maybe you should repent of your sin and seek the triune God of the Bible.

Mitch

I offer that Mr. McDermott is simply another person “trying to put LDS teachings in the most unfavorable light possible and attempting to persuade others that Mormon doctrine is heretical and should be ignored by others.” His intent is to “shock those who have little or no understanding of actual LDS doctrine to convince them that Latter-day Saints have a radical and blasphemous view of Christ.”

My opinion? The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints teaches its members to love and worship Christ as well as any other self-proclaimed “Christian” church, and ought to be recognized as such.

Quotations taken from a Michael Hickenbotham Article.

I hope you also read the rebuttal in the First Things article you quote, the one by Gerald McDermott. He concludes his article with the following:

“The intent of this essay is not to say that individual Mormons will be barred from sitting with Abraham and the saints at the marriage supper of the Lamb. We are saved by a merciful Trinity, not by our theology. But the distinguished scholar of Mormonism Jan Shipps was only partly right when she wrote that Mormonism is a departure from the existing Christian tradition as much as early Christianity was a departure from Judaism. For if Christianity is a shoot grafted onto the olive tree of Judaism, Mormonism as it stands cannot be successfully grafted onto either.”

Pondering Pastor